i mean, at least obama is talking about raising taxes and revenue and i don't think we know what romney's plan is, he won't share any details with us. i'll tell you what though, you say everything is about cutting spending. you know, gary, europe has been cutting spending like crazy and look where europe's headed. their talk, a lot of evidence that they're in recession now, because they've been way overaggressive about austerity and i don't think that would be good for the u.s. >> there's a lot of differences between us and europe, toby, what do you think this plan, this specific economic patriotism plan will do to debt and to the economy here in the u.s.? >> well, of course, debt is going to go up. remember, this is a code word. patriotism is a code word for we'll borrow another, and borrow another, if you take the spending wave structure and take it out ten years, we get to that point like greece, like spain, where it's a point of no return. there is a point at which, when interest rates go up and of course, they will, and as interest rates go up, all of a sudden, 20% and then 30%, our